This was fantastic. Brian’s interviews always get down to core beliefs and this one was particularly good. His response was very honest and reasonable too.
Interesting listen! I wish I understood your perspective on religion (yes, I listened to your pod with Simone and Malcolm). I'm very familiar with conservative Christianity. I was a low-church evangelical Christian til the age of 23, and sure about it until the age of 19 or so. I spent a year in Bible college! So I know Christianity, or at least the version Plymouth Brethren version of it I grew up with (if you haven't heard of the Plymouth Brethren, our guy J N Darby invented the Rapture as we know it today, though of course he would say the good Lord did).
And you're a conservative, and from what I understand, a Christian who takes Christian teaching literally. But you've got a whole esoteric layer in there too. like peter thiel does. Hell isn't just a place the unsaved go when they die, it's also some kind of a lesson that some people will never be saved, in this life as well as the next? This is politically conservative, and it seems to be Christianity, but not much like the conservative Christianity as I used to know it!
Because...before I ever explored any esoteric implications, I exited Christianity having been convinced that all its claims were false, and that modern science was more or less right about how the world exists. So I went from low-church literal conservative Christianity to atheism, two worldviews I've lived in and understand very well...without ever learning about the esoteric Christian space you seem to live in. I don't really understand what it is grounded in. It doesn't really seem to be the Bible in any straightforward way (there wasn't a single verse quoted in that pod) and it also very much not modern liberalism (quite the contrary!) nor libertarianism, as far as I know it. But that is not to say there's not something there and I'm sure you've given some thought to the grounding of your values and beliefs.
I don't want to be too argumentative about it in the comments section, so I'll just say, I'll definitely tune in for any more podcasts on the topic.
It's hard to explain what I believe short of book length, but I can explain the problem I'm trying to solve.
I don't believe humans can fulfill their own wishes with reason, and as their wishes take precedence over their immediate needs their dependence on reason to fulfill those wishes will destroy both civilization and themselves.
Interesting! That reminds me of CS Lewis's Surprised by Joy. He said, you won't find joy by pursuing it--you have to make good, or God, your target, and you get joy along the way.
With a very wide analogical bow it also reminds me of "Reward is not the optimization target", the 2022 AI Alignment text by Alex Turner.
This was fantastic. Brian’s interviews always get down to core beliefs and this one was particularly good. His response was very honest and reasonable too.
Thank you!
Interesting listen! I wish I understood your perspective on religion (yes, I listened to your pod with Simone and Malcolm). I'm very familiar with conservative Christianity. I was a low-church evangelical Christian til the age of 23, and sure about it until the age of 19 or so. I spent a year in Bible college! So I know Christianity, or at least the version Plymouth Brethren version of it I grew up with (if you haven't heard of the Plymouth Brethren, our guy J N Darby invented the Rapture as we know it today, though of course he would say the good Lord did).
And you're a conservative, and from what I understand, a Christian who takes Christian teaching literally. But you've got a whole esoteric layer in there too. like peter thiel does. Hell isn't just a place the unsaved go when they die, it's also some kind of a lesson that some people will never be saved, in this life as well as the next? This is politically conservative, and it seems to be Christianity, but not much like the conservative Christianity as I used to know it!
Because...before I ever explored any esoteric implications, I exited Christianity having been convinced that all its claims were false, and that modern science was more or less right about how the world exists. So I went from low-church literal conservative Christianity to atheism, two worldviews I've lived in and understand very well...without ever learning about the esoteric Christian space you seem to live in. I don't really understand what it is grounded in. It doesn't really seem to be the Bible in any straightforward way (there wasn't a single verse quoted in that pod) and it also very much not modern liberalism (quite the contrary!) nor libertarianism, as far as I know it. But that is not to say there's not something there and I'm sure you've given some thought to the grounding of your values and beliefs.
I don't want to be too argumentative about it in the comments section, so I'll just say, I'll definitely tune in for any more podcasts on the topic.
My favorite bible verse (though it needs the previous verse for context):
Isaiah 50:11
10 Who among you fears the Lord
and obeys the word of his servant?
Let the one who walks in the dark,
who has no light,
trust in the name of the Lord
and rely on their God.
11 But now, all you who light fires
and provide yourselves with flaming torches,
go, walk in the light of your fires
and of the torches you have set ablaze.
This is what you shall receive from my hand:
You will lie down in torment.
It's hard to explain what I believe short of book length, but I can explain the problem I'm trying to solve.
I don't believe humans can fulfill their own wishes with reason, and as their wishes take precedence over their immediate needs their dependence on reason to fulfill those wishes will destroy both civilization and themselves.
https://www.fromthenew.world/p/the-world-is-a-morality-play
https://www.fromthenew.world/p/polarization-saves-you-from-qanon
https://www.fromthenew.world/p/bargain-compromise-and-desire
The tragic fate of wish fulfillment -- in literature, in the world, and in my life -- is the reason I began to believe in God.
Interesting! That reminds me of CS Lewis's Surprised by Joy. He said, you won't find joy by pursuing it--you have to make good, or God, your target, and you get joy along the way.
With a very wide analogical bow it also reminds me of "Reward is not the optimization target", the 2022 AI Alignment text by Alex Turner.